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Post by chapdaddy on Sept 23, 2007 8:48:44 GMT -5
God limited his knowledge? can you demonstrate this? He chooses not to know our sin, to forget it, and Jesus chose not to know the time or hour of his second coming. God can choose to limit His knowledge as well as His omnipotence. I would argue that God does not choose to remember our sin but rather, cannot remember them. 1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1 Cor 13 4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. God knows the hour of the return so I don't know how that bolsters your argument.
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Post by chapdaddy on Sept 23, 2007 9:04:11 GMT -5
yes it is... that is the Gospel. God created Hell, it was never out of His control, it was death that man chose that God needed to conquer so he could give us another choice. And Abraham's bosom was a place where believer's were held captive until Jesus paid the price and then they could go home with Him. They could not enter God's presence until the price was paid. No person enters the presence of God until the resurrection because there is no "person" in relation to this time line until the spirit reunites with the body. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. I will reiterate another point... hell and death are synonymous because those who are "dead in spirit"/dead to the things of God are in fact dead and hell is the experience of that death. If death is conquered, then humanity is alive and hell has no part of them. Yet a quick inventory of my own self shows me that death is still a part of me in that I am not alive to the things of God in all areas of my life. How do you rectify this?
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Post by random on Sept 23, 2007 10:18:43 GMT -5
He chooses not to know our sin, to forget it, and Jesus chose not to know the time or hour of his second coming. God can choose to limit His knowledge as well as His omnipotence. I would argue that God does not choose to remember our sin but rather, cannot remember them. 1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1 Cor 13 4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. God knows the hour of the return so I don't know how that bolsters your argument. Jesus is God, and God Himself in Scripture says he choses to forget sin, but even if He just choses to never know it or cannot know it as you claim it is still knowledge He limits Himself from.
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Post by random on Sept 23, 2007 10:24:47 GMT -5
God created Hell, it was never out of His control, it was death that man chose that God needed to conquer so he could give us another choice. And Abraham's bosom was a place where believer's were held captive until Jesus paid the price and then they could go home with Him. They could not enter God's presence until the price was paid. No person enters the presence of God until the resurrection because there is no "person" in relation to this time line until the spirit reunites with the body. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. I will reiterate another point... hell and death are synonymous because those who are "dead in spirit"/dead to the things of God are in fact dead and hell is the experience of that death. If death is conquered, then humanity is alive and hell has no part of them. Yet a quick inventory of my own self shows me that death is still a part of me in that I am not alive to the things of God in all areas of my life. How do you rectify this? That right there proves two type of Hells as i was saying, but it is not speaking of those who were in Abrahams Bosom, since they are not judged by their works as we are judged solely based on what Christ did for us. And only death of the flesh is still part of us, we will never die twice, Jesus conquered the part of death that really matters. And presently to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, which means we no longer have to wait in abraham's bosom, we can go straight pass go and collect 200 dollars. Though I am still kind of iffy on what exactly you are arguing in these verses, or what you what to prove.
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Post by random on Sept 23, 2007 10:28:38 GMT -5
and yes death and hell are synonymous but that doesn't mean that Christ conquered Hell, it means that in conquering Death He gave us a way to conquer Hell by giving us a choice.
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Post by random on Sept 23, 2007 10:41:59 GMT -5
man, did we hijack this topic or what?
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Post by chapdaddy on Sept 23, 2007 22:33:22 GMT -5
No person enters the presence of God until the resurrection because there is no "person" in relation to this time line until the spirit reunites with the body. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. I will reiterate another point... hell and death are synonymous because those who are "dead in spirit"/dead to the things of God are in fact dead and hell is the experience of that death. If death is conquered, then humanity is alive and hell has no part of them. Yet a quick inventory of my own self shows me that death is still a part of me in that I am not alive to the things of God in all areas of my life. How do you rectify this? That right there proves two type of Hells as i was saying, but it is not speaking of those who were in Abrahams Bosom, since they are not judged by their works as we are judged solely based on what Christ did for us. And only death of the flesh is still part of us, we will never die twice, Jesus conquered the part of death that really matters. And presently to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, which means we no longer have to wait in abraham's bosom, we can go straight pass go and collect 200 dollars. Though I am still kind of iffy on what exactly you are arguing in these verses, or what you what to prove. It doesn't prove two different hells, it is illustrative of something less concrete.... ie a state of being.
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Post by chapdaddy on Sept 23, 2007 22:38:39 GMT -5
and yes death and hell are synonymous but that doesn't mean that Christ conquered Hell, it means that in conquering Death He gave us a way to conquer Hell by giving us a choice. you say that because you are viewing hell as a place as though it were a kingdom to be possessed although, we are to be victorious and overcomers of hell but that is only because that bondage has been broken off of us through the incarnation of Christ. God became man so then we have the power of Christ within us as well. So God defeated hell in Jesus and that same power resides in us.
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Post by chapdaddy on Sept 23, 2007 22:49:42 GMT -5
I would argue that God does not choose to remember our sin but rather, cannot remember them. 1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 1 Cor 13 4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. God knows the hour of the return so I don't know how that bolsters your argument. Jesus is God, and God Himself in Scripture says he choses to forget sin, but even if He just choses to never know it or cannot know it as you claim it is still knowledge He limits Himself from. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wrongedThis ignorance is not self imposed but is intrinsic to the very nature of God. God is love.
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Post by chapdaddy on Sept 23, 2007 22:51:38 GMT -5
man, did we hijack this topic or what? not really ".Love keeps no record of wrongs, God is love ^^Two direct biblical statements. Can you reconcile this within your brand of Christian theology and eschatology? If God is love, and love keeps no record of wrongs, will God keep record of the wrongs of those who deny Jesus, and blasphemy the Spirit?" I think we are still in the same ballgame
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Post by moises on Feb 29, 2012 20:14:10 GMT -5
Blasphemy against the spirit....really have to know what that means..its simply not accepting God..so how can someone (us) having the freedom to do as we please and choose never to BELIEVE(BTW believing isn't just knowing there is a GOD, its LIVING our lives according to what we BELIEVE) in God be forgiven?? His grace, love, and mercy will forgive but its ppls decision to either be saved or not...its on us to make the choice to live for God or not..he gives us our free will he doesn't want anyone to be forced to have to follow him and its not just a one time thing as in being baptized and thinking now we have a clean slat to commit sin all over again...
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